Haplogroup R2 is rather rare outside India, where it accounts for about 90% of all men on Earth having R2. In India it has been observed in about 10% of male population, in Pakistan – about 7-8%. In Tadzhikistan, neighboring India, haplogroup R2 is met in about 6% of the population. Some singular percentage of population having R2 can be met in the area of Caucasus, among Azerbaidzhanians, Armenians, Georgians, Chechens. It is conjectured that in these areas haplogroup R2 was introduced by the Gypsies, who carry haplogroup R2 with frequency of more than 50% of their population. The next main haplogroup in the Gypsies is H, as it was described in the preceding paper in this issue with an example of Bulgarian Gypsies. It is surmised that haplogroup R2 was originated some 25 thousand years ago.
The Gypsies have brought haplogroup R2 to Europe in medieval times, some 500-700 years ago, apparently first to Bulgaria, Germany and Austria (under the Gypsies names of Sinti and Roma), and then spread over Europe. This haplogroup was recently found among the Jews, and immediately it was suggested by the scholars that it came from the Khazars. No justifications and no time estimates were given.
Recently (Sengupta et al, 2006) a large set of Indian and Pakistani haplotypes was published, including more than 900 haplotypes. 81 of them belonged to haplogroup R2. Since as many as 21 of identical six-marker haplotypes (the base haplotypes) from those 81 are observed, as follows
14-12-23-10-10-14
it is rather obvious that these haplotypes cannot be too old. Indeed, ln (81/21)/0.0096 = 141 generations (163 with correction for back mutations) to a common ancestor. All 81 haplotypes contain 108 mutations from the above base haplotype, which gives 108/81/0.0096 = 139 generations (161 with correction for back mutations). It is a practically absolute fit, indicating that it was a single ancestor who originated the lineage of R2 haplogroup in India 4,000 years BP.
However, it seems that the actual time of origination of R2 haplogroup was much earlier. The R2 section of YSearch data base contains 34 haplotypes of individuals. Half of them are ethnic Indians, plus some Scotts, French, Italians, Armenians. Twelve individuals have names of their predecessors as Abraham, Isaac, Lebe, Mordecai, etc., and some of them presented supplementary information indicating that they are Ashkenazi Jews. The most frequent 6-marker haplotype among those 39 individuals is
14-12-23-10-10-14
which is exactly the same as that the base haplotype of haplogroup R2 in India- Pakistan, shown above. However, if to remove the Jewish haplotypes (which, as it is shown below, are derived from a recent ancestor), the remaining 22 haplotypes contain 35 mutations, that translates into 198 generations from a common ancestor. In 22 of the 12-marker haplotypes there were 101 mutations, which give 236 generations from a common ancestor. In 7 of the 37-marker haplotypes amount of mutations in the 12-, 25- and 37-marker panels corresponded to 282, 259 and 207 generations to a common ancestor. These four figures being averaged give 246±32 generations, that is about 6,200±800 years to a common ancestor of the non-Jewish individuals of R2 haplogroup in YSearch database. This might be a good indication that haplogroup R2 had originated not in India, since the Indian R2 haplogroups were derived from a significantly “younger” ancestor who lived about 4,000 years BP (see above), that is some 2,000 years later that an older bearer of the R2 haplogroup. In any case, this question needs more detailed studies.
And when a common ancestor of the Jews of haplogroup R2 had lived?
The most frequent 12-marker haplotype among those 34 individuals, Jewish and not, is
14-23-14-10-13-20-12-12-11-14-10-29
which is exactly the same as that for the Jewish individuals of haplogroup R2 in YSearch database.
Let us now consider the Jewish haplotypes in more detail.
6-marker haplotypes
11 of the 12 Jewish R2 haplotypes are identical to each other (Fig. 50), and their
6-marker base (ancestral) haplotype is
14-12-23-10-10-14
that is the same as the most popular among known bearers of R2 haplogroup in India and elsewhere in the world.
Figure 50. The 6-marker haplotype tree for 12 Jewish haplotypes of haplogroup R2. A “commercial” set (YSearch database)
Formally, 11 base haplotypes out of 12 give ln(12/11)/0.0096 = 9 generations, and one mutation in all twelve 6-marker haplotypes gives 1/12/0.0096 = 9 generations to a common ancestor, and the identity of these figures point out at a single ancestor for all 12 individuals in the set of their 6-marker haplotypes. However, as it has happened before, this tentative conclusion should be examined with more extended haplotypes. It is too often when 6-marker haplotypes, particularly in small haplotype sets, do not reveal mutations which occur in more extended panels of the haplotype.
12-marker haplotypes
Indeed, a move to the 12-marker tree (Fig. 51) immediately shows that there are two groups of the Jewish haplotypes, with an “older” and a “younger” haplotypes, descending from the same ancestor. Half of all 12 haplotypes still represent the base (ancestral) haplotype
14-23-14-10-13-20-12-12-11-14-10-29
Since their other mutations will be revealed by moving to more extended haplotypes, an estimate of a time span to the common ancestor based on the 12- marker haplotypes will be only tentative.
Figure 51. The 12-marker haplotype tree for 12 Jewish haplotypes of haplogroup R2. A “commercial” set (YSearch database)
This 12-marker base haplotype is exactly the same as the most frequent 12- marker haplotype in YSearch database, only one-third of which represent the Jewish haplotypes.
6 base haplotypes from the total 12 Jewish haplotypes would point to 29 generations to a common ancestor, since ln(12/6)/0.024 = 29. The other 6 haplotypes contain 15 mutations with respect to the above base haplotype. This would lead to 15/12/0.024 = 52 generations to a common ancestor. This mismatch (29 and 52) indicates that there were more than just one common ancestor for the Jews in R2 haplogroup. In fact, Fig. 51 makes it rather obvious.
As it turned out, many more mutations have occurred in the 13-37 marker panel of the distant branch, which distinctly separates the two branches. However, even the 12-marker tree shows the principal separation of the two groups of haplotypes.
37-marker haplotypes
The 37-marker haplotype tree is shown in Fig. 52. It reveals a striking feature of R2 Jewish haplotypes. Though there are only 7 haplotypes on the tree, they clearly show that Jewish R2 haplotypes splits indeed into two quite distant groups. Statistics is insufficient to perform detailed analysis, however, there are still enough data available to make some principal conclusions. One group of haplotypes, which are located on the right-hand side of the tree (Fig. 52) and much closer to the trunk of the tree (that is, to the present times), has the same 12- marker base haplotype as shown immediately above and in the Table, and corresponds to the group of the base haplotypes around the 12-marker tree (Fig. 51). This 4-haplotype branch has only 9 mutations with respect to the base 37- marker haplotype, and refers to a common ancestor who lived only 26 generations BP, 650±50 years ago, in the 14th century.
Figure 52. The 37-marker haplotype tree for 7 Jewish haplotypes of haplogroup R2. A “commercial” set (YSearch database)
Another group of Jewish R2 haplotypes, represented with three distant haplotypes on the left-hand side in Fig. 52, shows a base 12-marker haplotype (the 37-marker haplotype is shown in the Table):
14-23-14-10-13-20-12-12-10-13-10-31
It turned out that these three haplotypes (the left-hand side in Fig. 52) have only two mutations in their 37-marker haplotypes, that is among 111 alleles. This formally places their common ancestor only 7 generations BP, that is about two hundred years ago. All three are relatives within seven generations.
Overall, there are 21 mutations between these two base (ancestral) haplotypes in the 37-marker format. This means that these two haplotypes are separated by thousands of years of separate mutations, and, more specifically, this separation is approximately equivalent to 305 generations between the two, that is about 7,600 years. This places their common ancestors about 4,200 years BP, and fits pretty well with the common ancestor of Indian R2 haplogroup of 4,000 years BP, see above. It is very likely that the both lineages, “young” and the ancient one, are derived from the Gypsies in Europe. The “young” is traced down to the invasion time or a bottleneck time to the Jewish community, and the “older” is traced down to the ancient common ancestor in India. At any rate, both Jewish ancestral haplotypes, shown above in their 12-marker format and in the Table 2 in a 37-marker format are derived from two quite unrelated individuals, whose haplotypes had evolved from the very initial survivors in haplogroup R2, but traced down in millennia apparently to India, through the Gypsies.
Some historical conjectures
Here is a plausible story of the Jewish haplotypes of R2 haplogroup. Its ancestral haplotype
14-23-14-10-13-20-12-12-11-14-10-29
shown here in the 12-marker format, is about 4,200 years old, that corresponds to the age of this haplotype in India (see above). This haplotype had arrived to Europe apparently with the Gypsies, in the Medieval times, some 800 years BP, and got into the Jewish community. About 30-40% of the present day Jews, bearers of R2 haplogroup, are direct descendant of those Gypsies, or the Indians, on that matter. Approximately 650 years ago, apparently during the Black Plague times, in the 14th century, a bearer of this haplogroup, albeit in the mutated form had survived and fled to the Eastern Europe. This was a bottleneck for this particular haplotype. Close to half of present day Jews are descendants of that individual.
This story is a mirror one of the Jewish Q haplotypes story (see the preceding section). Apparently, the 14th century, the Black Plague times, created a number of bottleneck situations for the Jews of a number of haplotypes, and not for the Jews only.
The second Jewish R2 haplotype
14-23-14-10-13-20-12-12-10-13-10-31
in the 12-marker format, got to the Jewish community quite recently, merely two hundred years ago. It is very different from the first one. Its three bearers lived in the 19th century in Hungary, Romania and Lithuania. Their current descendants probably do not know that they are rather close relatives. Two of them differ by only 3 mutations in their 66-marker haplotypes.
From
Origin of the Jews via DNA Genealogy
Anatole A. Klyosov
Friday, February 19, 2010
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Here are a couple of interesting and often overlooked descriptions of the Jews buried in the historical archives:
ReplyDelete"Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem." Josephus, Contra Apionem, I, 22"
"The Arabian historians contend that Brahma and Abraham, their ancestor, are the same person. The Persians generally called Abraham Ibrahim Zeradust. Cyrus considered the religion of the Jews the same as his own. The Hindoos must have come from Abraham, or the Israelites from Brahma" (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p.396)
Brahma is not a mortal human being, unlike Abraham. Brahma is more of a concept - the universe itself. Jews may have originated in India though, like most Europeans.
ReplyDeleteBrahma, not Brahman.
ReplyDeleteWell, with a lifespan of a few hundred hundred billion years I'd say Brahma is more or less immortal!
ReplyDelete"In the Brahma Purana and Hindu cosmology, Brahmā is regarded as the creator but not necessarily as God. Rather, He is regarded as a creation of God / Brahman. The lifespan of Brahmā is 100 Brahmā years, equivalent to 311,040,000,000,000 solar years. At the end of His lifespan, there will be a gap of 100 Brahmā years, after which another Brahmā or creator will begin the process of creation anew. This cycle is thought to repeat without end."
A few hundred trillion actually. :)
ReplyDeleteThere is no evidence as to whether Abraham (who allegedly lived to 175) was in fact a real person to begin with.
ReplyDeleteThere still could have been a heretical priest and his disciples who went West, mixed with the natives, and created a new religion. Remember at the time the Vedas were known in the Middle east, especially amongst Iranian peoples.
This is typical of westerners. They claim to have discovered or invented everything that is of any value. So - Abraham was a westerner more or less.. and everything we know came from the west. Just delve into any discussion on the origin of indo-european languages and you'll understand(if you're not european). With every new paper out in the field of genetics the theories get more and more convoluted to suit the western idea that 'culture' came from there. It's getting to be a bit too predictable and boring.
ReplyDeleteThere is the possibility that Jews were being exterminated and that Jews (the ones from the middle east) accepted anyone as a convert - only the outcasts like the gypsies of India would have converted because they were also outcasts and had to flee. The presence of R2 in Europe is almost exclusively restricted to Jews.It could have been due to a singular founder event - perhaps a criminal thug on the run (the Jews in Europe that are genetically closely related).
ReplyDeleteWell Abraham was supposedly a middle easterner and Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion with Greek elements.
ReplyDeleteActually the Jews were treated fairly well by both the Muslim and Christian world for the most part. In fact they were the ones that facilitated trade between the two competing heretical Jewish religionists (Christians and Muslims) up until modern times and frequently traveled back and forth between Europe and the Middle East.
Judaism was a proselytizing religion though, up until Christianity and later Islam put an end to such activities and forced them into endogamy. The European jews (Asheknazis and Sephardics) most likely descend from Anatolian converts. Genetically they cluster most closely to Turks and Kurds, not Europeans or Palestinians. In fact the bulk of jews entered into Europe from the Eastern Roman empire. After the Roman occupation and the documented destruction of Jewish cultural heritage in Palestine most Palestinians presumably ceased to become Jewish and later converted to Christianity and Islam. Note at the time of the destruction of the second temple most Jews in the world were not in Palestine, but in Anatolia as well as Egypt, Iraq and Syria in particular.
I'm sorry to report this, but the article is quite misleading and very poorly written.
ReplyDeleteFirst, there are not enough evidence that R2 is a Gypsy marker, there has only been one very small community of Gypsies that have tested high in R2 (53%), and these were the Sinte which were located in Central Asia, not Europe, not to mention the sample size itself was very small (15 people), and to top it off they're not even the same group as the Roma (They have a different language), they also don't match the overall Y-DNA proportion that the Roma Gypsies have, meaning the Sinte people themselves are not even Roma to begin with.
Secondly, if you want to connect the R2's to the Roma, you must provide a proper extensive study in order to prove your point, which you have not, here's some hardcore evidence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1235543/
That's quite a large sample from a the European Gypsy population and not a single R2 was found among them, further more to this, here's the Romani (Gypsy) FTDNA project:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Romnchel/default.aspx?section=yresults
Not a big sample sure, but it sort of goes along with the study I provided, which indicates that haplogroup H is the Gypsy marker, while R2 is not.
Creo que usted es un poco antigitano, y está totalmente equivocado en su analisis. Yo he estudiado los haplogrupos gitanos, y todos son de origen judío, con una pureza superior al judío que vive en Israel, por cuanto los gitanos se han cruzado muy poco con los gentiles. En el estudio que usted cita, precisamente cita haplogrupos gitanos que son los mismos en los judios como el mitocondrial M5a1b y otros del Y.
DeleteThis is a very poorly written article indeed. Most romani's belong to the H haplogroup as can be seen from the dna projects on family tree dna, only a small exception of a sample of 15 people have been found to have the R2.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.familytreedna.com/public/YHaploGroupH/default.aspx?section=yresults
Creo que usted es un poco antigitano, y está totalmente equivocado en su análisis. Yo he estudiado los haplogrupos gitanos, y todos son de origen judío, con una pureza superior al judío que vive en Israel, por cuanto los gitanos se han cruzado muy poco con los gentiles. En el estudio que usted cita, precisamente cita haplogrupos gitanos que son los mismos en los judios como el mitocondrial M5a1b y otros del Y.
DeleteActually, the 15 Sinte people were not all R2, only 8 of them were which is 53%, this was a study done on a Sinte community in Uzbekistan.
ReplyDeleteThese were Sinte from Europe(mainly Germany) relocated to Uzbekistan.
ReplyDeleteThere are many results of Arab origin (r2)
ReplyDeleteIndonesia, north sumatera province, batak toba tribe DNA R-M124 finded Y DNA 2,7 persen
ReplyDeleteIndonesia, north sumatera province, batak toba tribe DNA R-M124 finded Y DNA 2,7 persen
ReplyDeleteHi, I'm an R2-m124 from India.I'm a Brahmin from Karnataka. We Brahmins know our Adams(This is known as Gotra / Y- Chromosome Lineage) my gotra is Kashyapa and R2-m124 may be Rishi Kashyapa/ or his Son Nidhruva, Kashyapa was not from the Aryan stock.According to historical texts we find that Kashyapa was a Blacksmith / He introduced Smithy on earth.The place I come from i.e. Mysore has the oldest recorded Iron age Site in India.And Anatolia is I suppose the oldest Iron age site and Caspian Sea some say is named after Kashyapa, So it is possible Kashyapa was there and in India too, ofcourse it is a well known fact that Kashmir is named after Kashyapa. I remember reading somewhere as a child that Rishi Kashyapa travelled to Egypt and 10000 people accepted Vedic religion.Kashyapa was the Son of Marichi and Marichi was one of the mind born sons of Lord Brahma.In India R2-m124 is found in many castes and it' s quite possible as Brahmins married from all castes as they moved from North India to other parts of India at the invitation of local kings.Some remained as Brahmins and some got assimilated to the castes of their mothers.
ReplyDeleteCorection Kashyapa's son was Avatsaara, Avatsaara had 2 sons Nydhruva and Rebha
ReplyDeleteI discovered that I am R2 and I am from Russia, where there is no at all R2. I travel every year to India and settle down in UAE. May be my blood attracted . So I would like to understand who I am and May be I find the same as me peoples
ReplyDeleteNicht wir zigeuner haben die Haplogruppe R2 nach Europa gebracht sondern die Juden. Alle europäische zigeuner haben sehr wenig R2 nur 2 %. Und die kleine Gruppe von Sinti die von Deutschland nach Zentralasien verlegt wurden sind, haben selbst diese Haplogruppe erhalten von denn Juden. Unsere männlichen Haplogruppen sind H1, J2a, J1, E1, E3 das ist unsere Haplogruppe die Von 30-60 % in allen zigeuner Gruppen vorhanden sind. Und unsere weibliche Haplogruppe sind M5 mit 30% Und U3b mit 60%. Und sinti Oder roma, kale, sasytka usw das sind alle Zigeuner nur wir haben circa 100 Gruppen und jede Gruppe nennt sich anders. In Amerika romanichal, und Polen Polska roma, in Russland Ruska roma, in Ungarn und Rumänien Lovara, Kalderasch usw.
ReplyDelete